[[*---Virtu contro al Furore---*]]

Sunday, November 28, 2004

______________________________

The LORD changes everything.

Went to church today with a significantly different attitude than... ach, i can't say for how long. All this time it had been a routine, a chore, a task to be grudgingly completed and forgotten...
Perspectives really change once you put God at the forefront of your life. Went out on friday, for the entire day thanks to activities here and there, and at the end of it all, i questioned why it had not gone the way i had wanted it to. Perhaps in the old days (well that refers to the time before last tuesday, so that's not exactly very old) i might have once again berated myself for not trying hard enough, or something of that sort. Yet that day, as i reflected on the events of the day, i realized that it had stemmed from not putting God first. For a simple prayer and devotion at the start of the day, helps to put everything into perspective again. Anyway, thinking again, what could i have expected from going out with 3 people i didn't know and 1 whom i've known for about 2 weeks? Well as you might have expected, not much.

Still, back to the issue of this week in general, things haven't changed. There's still... that, if you know what i mean, and not that much has really changed in general. People are yet the same as they have been for a long time. Yet it seemed to me to be so much more cheerful, more joyous, more glowing. Recognize then, that many problems exist but only in our head. Perspectives change everything. To look at something as Good or Bad is really an arbitrary judgemental statement that changes if one looks at it in a different fashion. God changes everything, indeed. Once i felt so attached to my money that i could not bear to part with it, but now it's but secondary. I think today was the first time i put money into the offering bag in many many years. 6? 8? I can't remember anymore. My parents say it's cause my money supply used to be much more limited, but i see that now as no excuse. No excuse at all. Giving to God should be regardless of how much you get, how old you are, and it's especially mutually exclusive with whether you're working or not. If you don't start giving, you won't ever do so, not in the forseeable future, and not until you realize the error of your ways...

If I am to berate myself for anything then, it would be on how ostensible the distance between me and God was for so long. Material things, personal glory, achievement, all the things of the world, i thought, as my parents said, that if i did well, if i did my duty as a student, that is to study, then the LORD would be glorified through that.
But,

"Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD ,
he has rejected you as king."
-- 1 Samuel 15:22-23

So really, all these things of the world, achievement, grades, personal glory, all are like the burnt offerings of Saul. Does the LORD delight in one who has drifted? I realize that all this while, i was like a lost sheep, wandering in darkness, with no light, no direction, but just aimlessly meandering on through life, "De2 Guo4 Qie3 Guo4" (Live life from day to day) as they say in chinese. Where then, was the meaning in that?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not scoffing at achievement. For God has appointed unto us to labour, to work, and to enjoy all that in the short days of our life. But Money, Materialism, and Mammon (Hebrew word for the general concept of material things), they drag us down, they cloud our view, until they are all that we pursue. These things are neutral in and of themselves - there is no law in the bible against being wealthy or rich. But what it does say, is that the rich man who clings on to the things of this world (and it doesn't need to be necessarily a rich man - it applies to all people), a person who cannot at once abandon what he has to pursue God's will, that is what God looks down upon. And it is true that christians can become so caught up with the things of this world, that they harden their hearts so much that they heed not to God's call. What then? I shudder to think of it.

Yet,

"So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow."
-- 1 Corinthians 3:7

So what then? Remember, it is appointed unto man to die once, and then the judgement. So what then? Where do you stand? Have you hardened your heart against his calling? Yet fear not, for God is infallible. He will not hesitate to call you back to him, if only you would ask.
For,
"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."
-- Luke 15:7

Put the LORD back into the focus of your life. Call unto Him, for he is always waiting.

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace...

[edit](6.30 pm) Just tagged/encouraged (where applicable) everyone on my links list. To think that took 3 hours. Anyway, must drop Vicsiek a call soon.

People need the LORD...

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|2:45 PM|

Wednesday, November 24, 2004

______________________________

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind...

The book of Ecclesiasted. God speaking to me. What a revelation indeed.
Yes, Lord, everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
How could i have been de-sensitized for so long? Marilyn Manson, ungodly and unwholesome music, and many many more. Evil deeds, terrible now that i look back on them...
How could i lose focus of the real goal? God alone. Nothing else can substitute. Nothing.
Not relationships. For what are they? They come and go, like the passing of a breeze, and friends will forsake you. Even your family. Are they perfect? Can they solve all your problems? Indeed the answer is a resounding no. Trust not in man, and fear him not.

"In God, whose word I praise,
in God I trust; I will not be afraid.
What can mortal man do to me?"
-- Psalm 56:4

Indeed, what of the things of this world? They too are nothing. They come and they go, and they wear down, and eventually disappear. And who can take any of these things back to heaven? For,
"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I will depart.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."
-- Job 1:21

And what of achievement? What of labor and toil? We strive so hard all the time (well most of us i suppose) towards some goal, and yet sometimes we fall short at the last stage, and we berate ourselves, and begin some cycle that ends with us wallowing in the midst of self pity. Where lies the meaning in that? Even if we should so succeed, what then? A period of celebration, a time of joy, and what then? Back to the whole cycle of once again proving one's worth, proving things again and again, in a never-ending rat race. So what if you win the rat race? So what if you are the richest, the most intelligent, the best in the world? You are still, at the end of the day, a rat.
For,

"And I saw that all labor and all achievement spring from man's envy of his neighbor. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind."
-- Ecclesiastes 4:4

In the end, really, the only thing left for us will be God, in all his mercy and grace. For even when friends abandon us, and the day grows dark and the hour becomes uncertain, even then, the LORD will be by our sides. He is ever merciful and graceful... May His name be praised forever and ever. The power of the LORD really works wonders. Even just a day after embracing his word, i find new strength. Strength to delete all that evil music, marilyn manson et al, strength to stop swearing, strength to keep a level head and a clear view in the midst of inner turmoil...
Bask in the glory of the LORD. Draw strength from him and his infinite kindness.
Therefore,

"Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil."
-- Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Remember your Creator in the days of your youth...

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|11:34 PM|

Tuesday, November 23, 2004

______________________________

Just read some of Ecclesiastes. It's really epiphanic.
Indeed Solomon, everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind...
Did i say that i believe that all of us contain a base and vile self that we repress and implant desires over in order to change our outward manifesto? It's true. But what i did forget to add is that if the inner self is repressed consistently and for a long enough duration, then it follows that the inner self will therefore reshape and form into something new, something better, a consequence of enough repression. I suppose that raises many questions about self-identity? No time now, however, rushing off to a Nan Hua gathering of P Sch friends.
Meanwhile.
Repression will continue, in order to change the self.
Yes Josh. I won't give up.

Mood - Inspired

Metallica - Nothing Else Matters

So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
and nothing else matters

Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say
and nothing else matters

Trust I seek and I find in you
Every day for us something new
Open mind for a different view
and nothing else matters

never cared for what they do
never cared for what they know
but I know

So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
and nothing else matters

never cared for what they do
never cared for what they know
but I know

Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say

Trust I seek and I find in you
Every day for us, something new
Open mind for a different view
and nothing else matters

never cared for what they say
never cared for games they play
never cared for what they do
never cared for what they know
and I know

So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
No, nothing else matters

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|4:55 PM|

Thursday, November 18, 2004

______________________________

Things Change.

Spent the whole morning stoning on the bed while listening to some of my old CDs that i had burned some 6 months to a year ago. Discovered them by chance as i thought they had been thrown away or fallen into disrepair. Still, i did realize then that although the CDs merely contained music, which i listened to at that time and still do right now, in a sense the CDs, their mutiplicity and the overall music found in them would in a way represent the memories of the times in which i burned those CDs. Cue another long period of introspection everyone...

At that time, i was still struggling to come to terms with the harsh reality that i had unwittingly created for myself. Painful experiences, Broken friendships, and many more terrible things that i had only discovered then existed beyond my halcyon sphere of egocentrism... A Pandora's box that i had opened myself. Even then i wanted to escape from it all, all the problems, without looking at them properly, and thus created even more problems, more pain, more terse experiences for myself this year.

Would it have been better then to deal with everything at that time? Yet in a sense self-repression cannot occur over such a short time, or without sufficient stimuli... To an extent the fact that many of my friends were still in a way supportive of me at that time served in a sense as a symptomatic relief to whatever others might have said. Yet in the same sense, that fact alone might have then served as justification for some kind of continuation of my terrible behavior at that point. Hence cue this year, and so on.... But listening back to metallica, which i was absolutely crazy over at that time, i realize that much of my problems i faced at that time were real, yet i chose to blot them out in my mind's eye, not paying heed to them until in a sense it was too late this time around.

Yet now are the problems really resolved? After a whole year of repression and self-control (yes some will disagree with that) it seems like there's still no balance in my life. Still not talking about like over-emphasis of grades, though that is most certainly there sometimes, but i suppose, if i really look at it, i lack in a sense an innate ability to click with people instantly. Now that is, not that kind of click which results in like people getting married within a few months and all that, with the marriage lasting like super long and all that, but more importantly it's something i lack that cannot put others at ease... Look at our resident terrorist, he's got that spark, that certain factor which naturally puts people at ease, that makes him naturally popular... I would suppose i could go so far as to say that it exists within the person's character as well, that if you are that kind of person who can put yourself at ease to put others at ease, that you can feel natural in whatever kind of company you are in... Then that would naturally be better. Still, is that really all that there is? Somehow i sense that there must be more that one can do. So remind me to call the ISD and ask that detainee about it...

But back to my original point, ever thought you were drowning in problems when you weren't? It seems that way to me now, that this whole myriad of problems exist within my mind, and that their external manifestos are surreal but ever-present. Even then, sometimes i feel that some of these problems, in fact most if not all of them, were created by myself, and in a way can only be solved by myself. Even then, sometimes things are present, which make me aware of these problems. What problems, one asks?

I think firstly and foremostly, i lack that special bond? In a sense a special bond with many of the people whom i have known for a while. People like Mun, Song, Shiv, etc, yes they're my friends and so on, but still, when one sees them, and if one could just observe my dealings with them, it might, or might not, be obvious that i perhaps cannot say that i'm that comfortable with them, to in a sense trade affable verbal repartee and engage in extended humourous conversation? And this does seem in a way strange because it was different in Sec 2... And we all know how i was like in sec 2 right? Well in some way whether they've in a sense seen through me or something of that sort, i have absolutely no clue... Must call the ISD detainee about that too...

Problems problems... how about being too open? I suppose in a sense certain people are naturally disarming, and one naturally feels more at ease with them? Yet in a warped way, i find that myself, i can share with these people and so on, but in a way their disarming nature puts me even more on guard, such that in a way i begin to calculate all my actions to not become too casual - even if the person knows that he or she is more disarming than others, people becoming too casual can also put the person off in a way - what more if the person doesn't fully know that he or she is disarming! They'd think that people around them who acted really casual would be strange and all that... Though it might be, to some extent, their own fault for having a lack of self-knowledge? Still, it being their own fault or no, distancing would inevitably be bound to occur. Given all that, then, it follows that, yes Shiv, Ignorance is Paranoia... Let's say i know this person who is naturally disarming (this is a real case btw) and this person (in case the person finds out, i shall keep this example gender-neutral) may or may not know of one's own disarming nature, so it would follow that I might become more cautious around this person such that this person would not think that i was acting strangely casual...
Social etiquette and social unwritten rules. Indeed.

At the same time, whether it may seem strange or not, i eventually find myself doing a double gravitation. Here i mean that while i like to make friends with the people who are naturally outgoing and happy-go-lucky (or at least they might seem so on the surface), in a way my relationship with them tends to be a little.... Shallow perhaps? It might be in the whole idea that birds of a feather flock together... Somehow then, although i prefer on the surface to hang around people who are more cheerful and outgoing, because the overall feeling of such a group is generally high and pleasant, i do eventually, in a way, find myself gravitating towards people who can in that way understand where i'm coming from... People who do think and ponder a lot, and have very deep-reaching views about what happens around them... People who, in a way, can be themselves around others, without much fear of repercussions, people who are not afraid to be themselves, and whom can be really insensitive at times but are generally frank and honest. In a way if i see that these people can be themselves, that they in a sense dare to be moody and angry when everyone else is hyper, that they can speak their mind often, these are the kind of people i eventually find myself gravitating to.

I guess in a way i repress myself. Self-repression, in a way, is a strange thing (and i have yet to read up freud's views on this) because after a extended enough period of self-repression, that which is being repressed can really go underground, and the facade that one puts up as a result of said repression can then become in a way integrated into the self, that it then becomes part of the person's personality. People who have known me since sec 1 would know that since then, a good deal of self-repression has taken place, to quell the egotism that arose at the end of sec 1 unwitttingly and became a major sticking point in sec 2, especially at the end of it... anyway so in a way, if i look at my motives for self-repression at the end of sec 2, till the middle of sec 3 even, i would say that they have changed completely...

Now in a sense i have repressed myself to the extent that some of the reasons for the repression have disapppeared, and many of the artificial traits that i put on, that i built up as part of the facade of my repressed self, have become second nature to me, that often i think about my old motives and my old self, and cannot help but laugh or cry. Yet even now, as it has been made clear to me by someone whom i talked with during that period of depression after the debate camp, apparently self-repression has not fully finished. It must continue. Repression of the self actually in a way brings about benefits? Of course others would simply term it as acting differently based on the circumstances... Then again do these people really repress themselves? No, indeed they do not, but simply let their repressed areas show themselves in some ugly ways sometimes, in scenarios which they think will be of no consequence.

Still, others would tell me to be myself. I wouldn't know about that though. One realizes, that after an extended period of self repression such as the one which i have undertaken, for example, the demarcation of what is the self and what is being imposed on the self by the self, as well as what is being imposed on the self by others, really becomes blur. I can honestly say (and others would agree) that i am a better person than i was at the end of sec 2. Yet how much of this change was effected by me? How much of it was consequentialist and effected by the microcosm of society that exists around each individual? How much yet again was part of my innate nature? All the time, how much of all these changes have then become part of myself? All these are naturally very hard, if not impossible, to delineate - yet even then it is somehow recognizable, at least to me, that some parts of the facade of self-repression have not been fully integrated into my own self. Overall it seems like the line between self and not self is really becoming increasingly blurred.

This still requires, i suppose, more thought which is at the present time (it's 4.30 already on my clock) rather untenable. Things which hitherto had been unknown must be brought to light. Constant thought of such matters, though, is not something which i really look forward to, as somehow it always ineveitably ends up in some way becoming depressing.

Oh well. So Much for now.

Mood - Pensive
Song - Metallica - Fade to Black

Life it seems, will fade away
Drifting further every day
Getting lost within myself
Nothing matters no one else
I have lost the will to live
Simply nothing more to give
There is nothing more for me
Need the end to set me free

Things are not what they used to be
Missing one inside of me
Deathly lost, this can’t be real
Cannot stand this hell I feel
Emptiness is filling me
To the point of agony
Growing darkness taking dawn
I was me, but now he’s gone

No one but me can save myself, but it’s too late
Now I can’t think, think why I should even try

Yesterday seems as though it never existed
Death greets me warm, now I will just say good-bye

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|2:34 PM|

Wednesday, November 17, 2004

______________________________

Tagboard is down at the time of this post. Dang. Just when all the scandalous photos were beginning to circulate...
Egads. Went for db8 training today to discover that
1. I'm hopelessly rusty.
2. I cannot do impromptu debate(but then, i figured as much)
3. I cannot do 3rd speaker.

Yeech. Today's debate was so... bad. Yup Zhi was right, we may be the seniors but we were definitely wayyy more screwed today... especially my speech which was so off point. Well i suppose that it was way off more for me to move from 1st (usual speaker position) to 3rd... still aug moving from 1st prop to 1st opp was q a big change too.... so remind us not to try anything dumb during competitions ya... Oh and i have confidence in team 2! The next year sec 3s that is...
Ok. Have to go now.

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|10:27 PM|

Tuesday, November 16, 2004

______________________________

Things are back to normal. Thanks to all who helped me pull through...
I suppose in this case it was quite unusual because it was a problem that in a sense existed for the longest time, as well as a problem that existed within my own mind exclusively (sorry been doing too much doublethink recently - see George Orwell's 1984 for what that means), and therefore in this case it was not so much finding a solution to the problem, but to see how the individual, myself in this case could in a sense work my way across this problem, to get around it, and in the same line of though while avoiding it also integrating the problem to a certain extent that it no longer became problematic.
Also this would be the case because no existential solution to the problem is foreseeable - this problem is at once the fault of the individual for keeping things the way they are, and at the same time a fault of the whole circle of people from different schools in a sense pressurizing others into becoming that way... But before we become more incoherent and start debating on social oppression and the extent to which it affects the individual, let's just say that this problem both exists within the individual and society, and yet at the same time doesn't exist - in the sense that it only exists if a person such as myself should choose to recognize the issue and make a problem out of it. Simply put, if one chooses to be totally oblivious to this problem, then the problem in a sense will simply not exist.
So recognizing that no foreseeable solution exists to solve, in a sense, this problem, then i suppose that what i went out to do, was not to solve the problem, but instead to better understand the underlying issues within the problem, and to see how this problem, or issue if in that sense it wasn't universally recognized as a problem, to see how it worked, and what i could posssibly do to both integrate and avoid this issue.
Yup. That was extremely incoherent. I suppose even to those who do know what i'm talking about. Well now that the issue is in a sense resolved, or at least i see it resolved, then thanks are most certainly due to those who helped me along.

Thanks especially to...
Cyn, for making me see the problem in the first place. Like you said, just forget it, and i suppose that is true. All in the personal judgement isn't it?
Gel, for helping me understand the overarching issue better.
Josh, for being a great friend, understanding where i'm coming from, and putting the whole issue into context for me. God most certainly works many great and wondrous things through you... Thanks for being there always.
Christine, for understanding and empathizing with my position... I suppose seriousness is not na curse but a blessing, especially in times of trouble... Thanks and keep up the drug dealing :P
Feli, for showing me the "other" perspective, and helping me along with my self-awareness.... and also for telling me some things that i didn't yet know... Thanks...
Kal, for being perfectly honest, and for helping to close up and heal some old wounds that were yet to fully close.... haha glad things are better between us now...
And to everyone else who helped me along. Thank you all. You've been a great help.

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|8:45 PM|

Sunday, November 14, 2004

______________________________

Sometimes i think too much.
Sometimes i think i think too much, but actually i think enough.
Sometimes i think i think too much but i don't think enough.

Well. Just finished talking on the phone. It's quite therapeutic i must say...
Did i want to say something here? I suppose i said it up already.
Thanks for the advice at any rate... You know who you are...
And for just being someone who's there.
Feel a bit better... I think I'll let the matter rest for a while...
Meanwhile, must somehow get an Mp3 player, in case i need to shut off the world again...
Still thinking. Still pondering.
Onwards then...

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|8:44 PM|

Friday, November 12, 2004

______________________________

Perhaps it is all a sham.
Feeling crushed now. Really Really crushed.
Well how would you feel then, if all you worked for, was not only not recognized, but even derided to some sort?
Is it not enough?
Is it never enough?
Perhaps you all may not realise it, but it is there.
When you try to be nice, and people misunderstand you.
Depressing. Abysmal.
Thing is, does one continue being nice?
Then again, if i don't try to be nice, there's once again the black self.
Egotistic. Arrogant. Aggressive. Full of crap.
The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea.
A trickery, a facade, or unending, unadulterated, egocentrism.
If I think about it, perhaps it's not so hard to choose...
Or is it?
Yet while i continue pondering, I choose the Devil.
A Mirror of Beauty and Falsehood.
And so it goes on.
You. You know who you are. Don't misunderstand me. Don't discard me for being nice.

"Lost the faith,
Lost the love,
But when the day is done..."

Mood - Emotionally Spent
Song - Slipknot - Diluted

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|10:49 PM|

Wednesday, November 10, 2004

______________________________

Yawn... just finished painting my bro's room after coming back from an awesome surprise birthday party for cyn! Well must say it was quite well planned so thanks to all the organisers for a great time - we had the best time ever!
So well naturally me shiv and cyn went into lame mode... And of course much of the speculation about shiv and kal... and yes they DO have extremely long eyelashes, must be something in their indian genes or something? Haha...
Debate camp starts tomorrow. More fun and games! And Sentosa was really fun too, and now with today cyn has officially progressed from butter to sand.. congrats! Haha...

4am now. Choices choices. Go to sleep and try to drag myself out after 3 hours, or just stay awake the whole time and crash out in RTC? Not sure...

Still reading Orwell's 1984, and it's rather thought provoking. For some reason, obscure or otherwise, 1984 reminds me of the battle between the schools of thought of Immanuel Kant and John Locke, whether empirical data is to be trusted on or not, and whether said data can be taken as a true representation of reality, or simply a skewed perspective on what really is out there. Priori Vs Posteriori, Noumena vs Phenomena, etc. Oh well. A little fatigued to be typing out a whole argument here, especially also since i've not read finish 1984... hope to do so by the end of debate camp! Oh and Mario Puzo's The Godfather is really good, can easily see how it became a classic; one of those books that create their own world which yet ties in with reality.

remind me if buggy html keeps popping up. Aside from that, Sentenced is a really good band, another excellent example of the unknown latent skills in finnish rock/metal bands... Must go visit there sometime during their summer or sometime when i get enough money.

[Edit]
It's 4.30 now so i guess i'll choose no sleep. Shall go make a nuclear coffee, bathe, and pack whatever soon. Also, decided to stick with a blogger template because the netscape/int explorer incompatibilities bug many templates except those designed by the blogger team...

As for that debate, why not.
I suppose many would already know what kinds of philosophy Kant and Locke each advocated. Anyway, in my simplistic understanding, Kant advocated that everything we experience now is just a representation of the actual event. When we experience something, each of our senses translates that experience into a separate experience, and the brain will then put all of these representations to form a picture of the actual experience. But, just as the old chinese proverb "mang ren mo xiang" (blind men feeling an elephant) goes, each blind man has a different representation of what he thinks the elephant is like. One who feels the tail thinks that it is like a rope, the other who feels it's side thinks that it is like a wall, and so on. To these people, the real form of the elephant lies outside their possible perception. It lies in something called the noumenal reality, which holds all the true forms of everything and all our experiences. In the same way, we may be able to experience something, but we have to admit, our senses are not only a mere representation of the actual experiences, but also that they are limited. Mantis Shrimps see in 16 different base hues, instead of our red blue yellow. Sharks can sense the electrical impulses running through our body, and can smell stuff a few kilometres away. Heck, even snakes can sense in infra-red. Thus, each of these creatures has a representation of reality very different from human perception, though the actual event, from an outsider's point of view, may be exactly the same. Thus really, our senses can only represent the actual experience, and not recreate the essence of that experience. This lies in the noumenal reality, the true forms of things (yes i know this sounds like plato) and this noumena cannot be accessed by our limited human perception. Thus all we experience, called the phenomena, cannot be trusted absolutely to be the truth, or even near the truth.

[Edit Edit] (was too sleepy beforehand)
John Locke on the other hand was described as the ultimate empiricist, taking things at face value, and that since whatever noumena is not accessible to our common experience, we should just discard it. basically, it is really useless to talk about things that we cannot even grasp and experience (occam's razor to some extent) so therefore that's why all that we can experience in our perception should therefore compose our entire reality... Well haven't read up on this that much so i may resurrect this debate again some other time...

Guess that's about it for now. Catch y'all after debate camp.

[[ Sagacious Musings ]]*|3:31 AM|